Interview with Christian Van Gils - founder of Frog Dog Games

At Spel Antwerpen 2025, I met Christian from Frog Dog Games. The beautiful dragon on the stand's banner immediately caught my eye, and the enthusiasm with which Christian engaged with visitors to his stand was attractive. I was really keen to find out the story behind Frog Dog Games. We arranged to meet on the second day of the fair for an in-depth interview.

Esmeralda: Hi Christian, can you tell me a bit about Frog Dog Games? 

Christian: We're Frog Dog Games. The name of my company comes from my French bulldog, Pepper. When French bulldogs sleep, they look a bit like a frog, with their legs stretched out behind them. That's why they're sometimes nicknamed 'frog-dogs'. Hence the name of my company, just so you know. (laughs)

Esmeralda: (laughs) That's nice to know.

Christian: She's a really sweet little creature. She's pictured on everything, but she's never allowed to come along.

Esmeralda: Can't you make sure she's there in some or another way? By having a soft toy as avatar for your stand, or something like that?

Christian: Yes, that could work; my daughter had actually suggested that before. (laughs) It certainly could. Maybe later.

Esmeralda: Your company is very new and just starting out in the industry, is that right?

Christian: Yes, we started last year. (2024) I was first invited to Zuiderspel in Veldhoven. It was quite by chance; I bumped into someone somewhere and said, 'I've made a game, it's a cut-and-paste model, and I'm not quite sure what I want to do with it.'

He told me they were holding a games afternoon nearby on a Sunday. He invited me to bring the game along to see if anyone would like to play it with me. So I did, and it turned out people really enjoyed the game. At the end of the day, he told me that Zuiderspel was taking place three weeks later. He asked me if I'd like to have a stand there. I thought that was a good idea and agreed. With Zuiderspel on the horizon, I made a few demo copies, fifty, to be precise. Simply because I thought, well, then we can run demos on that occasionand perhaps sell a few copies. My stand was right at the very back, which was really cosy. I sold a lot of my demo games that day. That's how the ball started rolling. I thought, 'Well, I might as well give it another go,' and that's how I've ended up at Spellenspektakel Utrecht and here at Spel Antwerpen. 

Esmeralda: How did the idea of developing games come about? Did you and your wife always think, 'Oh, that sounds like something we'd enjoy'? If I'm not mistaken, you met at the art academy in Breda, didn't you? Were you already making plans about it back then?

Christian: We  We did indeed meet there, but no, certainly not through the art academy. What we did there was graphic art, painting, 3D work. So that really has nothing to do with it. Creative, of course. We also ran an advertising agency together. During that time, we did occasionally make a game for end-of-year events. But that was very specifically just for that client.

Personally, I've always been into games, although I didn't really do anything with them at the time. I was already coming up with them, but they were just sitting in the cupboard, ready to go.

Later, we sold our advertising agency and then, three years ago, my software company. Last year, I took everything out of the cupboards again and came across the games. That was the moment I thought: hey, I'd actually quite like to do something with those again.

I realised it was the Year of the Dragon in the Chinese zodiac, I myself was born in the Year of the Dragon. In the middle of the night, I came up with the dragon game: 'Dragon Dance'.

I woke up in the morning and created it straight away. I'm a designer, of course, so I was able to work out the concept very quickly. At that point, it's actually already a game you can play. It doesn't take me that long at all; it just happens. (laughs)

Then the fine-tuning begins. My wife Simone goes through it all thoroughly once more, and that's how the designs really take shape. When we then play the game with people, we get lots of relevant feedback on the final details. By that point, the game is already 80, 90, 95 % finished. Then that last 5 % still needs to be properly incorporated into the rules, that's what I find the hardest. 

Esmeralda: If I undersand correctly, your wife helps out once the idea is already there.

Christian: Yes, although she can also help by coming up with an idea about a game, because it was she who gave me the hint to do something with dragons. 

The initial idea usually comes from me, along with the puzzle mechanism, and then she helps with the design. Those two worlds have to come together. For example, when I first worked out the game, I actually used coloured sticky notes. At that stage, they're just coloured sticky notes, the game doesn't really amount to anything yet, of course.

The only thing we knew was that it was the year of the Dragon. That's why it was a logical choice to do something with dragons. My wife and I are more into graphic design and beautiful things. You can see that this results in a beautiful dragon. (points to the dragon on the Dragon Dance banner at the stand)
You can also play Dragon Dance with children aged 3 and over, which is why we'd initially come up with a version featuring flying dragons with little wings and smiling dragons. That had a completely different look to what it has now. So we decided against that in the end, because we're more into that graphic style. I can well imagine that if we were to make a version in a child-friendly style or a cartoon-style, it would attract a different target audience.
That's what makes such choices so tricky, the whole thing has to be right, but so does the design. It all has to come together. And it does come together, but there are still a hundred other directions you could take it in. 

Esmeralda: You could, of course, create a proper children's version of it at some point?

Christian: I could do that, in the future, yes, most people have already suggested that.

Esmeralda: I notice you speak about your wife with such passion and warmth. What makes you such a strong team when it comes to developing games?

Christian: We've known each other since we were 13, I'm 61 now. We've stayed together all these years, got married and have three children. We understand each other really well anyway; we always have. We ran the advertising agency together, studied at art academy together; we're very much on the same wavelength about why we should do something or why it's better not to.

Christian: One of the things you'll notice is that we don't use plastic wrap in our boxes. Some people insist on it, because then they know what's inside. We do try to do everything as ecologically as possible. But anyway, just like this (shows a piece from the game Clever Crowns), it's 3D-printed from plastic. Purely for practical reasons, because it's easy for us to do it ourselves.

We're currently producing everything in small batches to test things out. If we were to produce this on a large scale, we'd certainly give more thought to the best way to design it and take a more eco-friendly approach. For now, you should always think of my current batches as very comprehensive demo games.

Esmeralda: Could you explain a bit more about Frog Dog's other core principles?

Christian: That everyone should have fun. That we have rules that fit into a compact format, so you can explain them quickly. Our slogan is: 'endless fun'.

It's all about that fun. Like here, at a trade fair like this, I enjoy seeing people having a laugh together. When I see them laughing as they sit around the table, I think: right, we've managed to achieve that with what we've created.

Christian: No, no cooperative games, that's because I always notice that people want to win in a game.

Esmeralda: But surely you can actually 'win' the game?

Christian: Yes, but I just can't quite picture that. I have to admit, though, that people have asked me that question quite often over the past year. Including people who ask quite specifically whether I've done a solo play. That does suggest that some people would really appreciate it. Or a game specifically for two people. Those questions do plant a seed in my mind. Who knows, when the time is right, it might just happen.

Esmeralda: I do notice quite often with new games originally designed for multiple players, that more and more of them are now including a solo variant.

Christian: Yes, but I always see that as a bit of a compromise, the way I look at it now.

Esmeralda: Ouch, I always think that's a nice option. (laughs)

Christian: I still think it's a bit of a cop-out; that's because you're essentially creating a watered-down version. Unless you've actually planned it from the very start, then it might work. Personally, I don't think it would work because you'd have to deviate significantly from your core rules. That instantly makes it feel like an add-on. Well, that's just how I feel about it; it might also be because I've never actually done it before.
But now that I'm working on it, I'm thinking about it more and more. For me, though, it's important that I don't have to change the rules. 

Esmeralda: OK, I understand your point of view. And what about co-operative games?

Christian: I'm not sure about that yet. I just can't quite picture it yet. Because I haven't really looked into it. And so I'd much rather see those people having a good time playing against each other. 

Esmeralda: OK, I get it. Personally, I'm mainly thinking of a family context. For example, like me as a single mum with a daughter. If you have to play against each other, it immediately becomes very competitive. Fortunately, it works well for us, but there are also young children who find this very difficult.
Personally, I believe that a co-operative game for parent and child can also offer added value. A moment to completely unwind, to be fully connected around the table. With an added benefit from a parenting perspective: if we work well together, we can achieve much more than on our own, and sometimes we manage to beat the game. 

Christian: OK, I can see that point of view too. That's why I really enjoy escape rooms with my children. 

Esmeralda: Yes, I get that; personally, I'm not really keen on that concept, for example. (laughs)

Christian: But I completely agree that it's all about connection, about playing a game together. And whether it's a co-operative game or not. Above all, it has to be fun. We just haven't got round to playing a co-operative game yet, but I'm certainly not opposed to the idea.

Esmeralda: Can you tell me a bit more about the game Clever Crowns?

Christian: The aim was to create a game with innovative mechanics. Actually, that's the case with every game I make. I would be absolutely terrified that if I played my game with you, or with anyone else here at this fair, someone who attends lots of fairs, they'd say to me: 'Oh, but that's similar to this one.' I would have found that dreadful.

Well, fortunately that didn't happen with Dragon Dance and certainly not with Clever Crowns.
It did happen with Real Talk, but I bring that up myself, because I'm the one making the link to Hitster. I do that because I'd like to promote and release my film game.
People here say that Clever Crowns really has a mechanism they can't compare to anything else. Well, that makes me absolutely delighted. 

Esmeralda: Yes, I see. 

Christian: I used to play a lot of chess. That's why I wanted to create something where you have to think ahead to win. So Clever Crowns is a bit more tactical to play than Dragon Dance and Real Talk. Clever Crowns actually has quite a sad story. The king is dead, but… the king has sent an envelope to every inhabitant of the land. Inside the envelope is a personal task. If you're the first to successfully complete your three trials, you'll become the new king.

The task consists of cards in your envelope that form a pattern of four. During the game, you must search for that pattern on 'The Battlefield', a 5×5 grid on the game board.
Because, as a player, you must place a card on the game board every turn, the layout changes constantly and you must keep an eye on it to see if your pattern is forming anywhere. Everyone has a personal mission; you can thwart other players by placing a card without realising it.
The challenges get just a little bit harder each time. For each difficulty level, extra cards are introduced into the game with special properties, wild cards, explosions and arrows that clear rows. This means you have to think several moves ahead throughout the game. How can I turn the game board to my advantage? 

Esmeralda: Sounds fun, I'll definitely give it a go. You mentioned something earlier about Dragon Dance and how it came about, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about the game? 

Christian: Yes, with Dragon Dance, I always ask straight away if anyone at the table is colour-blind. 

Esmeralda: Oh dear, yes – otherwise it's probably unplayable.

Christian: Well, it is playable. Because we took this into account during the design phase. I probably included that because I'm a graphic designer. That way, I was able to work out which shades of red and green fit best within that spectrum. We've also added Chinese characters to the red and green cards, so that the game is as accessible as possible to a wide audience. Dragon Dance is simply a really fun game where you lay out colours together to score points. You can win the game by laying your cards down in a certain way. There's an element of luck involved, as you draw cards and see which ones you end up with. But there's also a tactical aspect to the game; it's important to play the cards you have in the right way.
Dragon Dance is simply a really fun little game to play in between other activities, or whilst on holiday.
I had an elderly Indonesian aunt who was 95 years old. In Indonesia, she often played Dominoes; she called it 'Domino 2.0' and loved playing it.
In my opinion, it doesn't resemble it at all, but the principle of laying down cards is somewhat comparable. 

Esmeralda: I'm looking forward to trying it out. What else is on the cards at the moment? Are there any ideas you're mulling over? 

Christian: Yes, definitely, there are about 17 ready to go, so to speak. There's one game concept that's already been worked out in more detail. That game is called Volt. Volt is about an old safe from the 1920s, which you have to break open and protect together. You also have your own personal safe.
I've already fleshed out the concept and played a beta version, first with family and then with groups of people on a Sunday afternoon. That generated some feedback, so I'm working on that now. 

Esmeralda: Sounds exciting! Christian, I'd like to thank you very much for making time during the fair to do this interview. Thank you so much! 

Christian: It was my pleasure.

Looking back on the interview

It was a pleasant conversation with an enthusiastic, creative jack-of-all-trades. It was very clear that Christian has another 101 ideas in his head and can't wait to bring them to life. 

It was a warm conversation, and I always love seeing the motivation to create games that the whole family can really enjoy together around the table.

I was also given a copy of the game Dragon Dance to review. You can find the review here.

Tekst: Esmeralda Wolf